This article that @Stargazer posted in another thread shines a bit more light on Waikato's issue:
Seems more like historical financial issues have a part to play than Chiefs contracting.
Odd in a troll thread that the OP is complaining about being trolled ....
I'm IMPLYING the Waikato demise is associated with the Chiefs selection policies since Central contracting began, and I've thrown out a scenario re how the two could be connected, but I've actually asked for opinions from locals.
I'm focusing on Douglas because he's a perfect and very recent example of the kind of player ignored by the Chiefs in lieu of other signings, who was proven to be well and truly up to scratch, but is now gone.
I get that some fans of other franchises may have
disassociated said franchise from the local provinces, more ala US pro sports where it's a rarity to have a local player in a squad, but we're not the US. NZ is a vastly smaller market and there's no reason why the Super structure can't be tinkered with, without breaking it, so that all sides end up with more local talent involved.
Clearly no matter what replies you got, from anyone, you were going to ignore anyway. Waikato are shit at the moment because they're shit at the moment. If the Chiefs had picked a preponderance of Waikato players in the last four years then the Blues would be happy as they wouldn't be the 5th NZ team anymore.
You're repeatedly ignoring comments from a poster within that region, who note that they don't want to see a scenario where Waikato dominates the franchise in a way that diminishes the other teams in the franchise.
Douglas was ignored by the Chiefs (and all other franchises) because he wasn't considered better than all other options. The Chiefs loose forwards were mostly from within the franchise borders, in fact no team, not even your Crusaders select all loosies from within their borders. Every year players who deserve a spot miss out, and they often miss out to players selected in a team not from the region.
Your idea of having a certain number of players from within the franchise boundaries is fine, and it currently does happen, but even then you're not happy because in the franchise in question the 'base' doesn't dominate.
As @booboo notes only one franchise base has made the finals this year and two of the franchises bases are already in 2nd division - so why the focus on Waikato?
@nepia Point missed? There are already 8 Waikato players in that squad. But how many were there a couple of years later? I'm sure you know as well as I do that there were more players from provinces -
from memory - such as Manawatu and Tasman than Waikato in following years. I'm all about provincialism and tribalism throughout the NZ game, so for mine, that's wrong.
Your points are all over the show. You're claiming the Waikato demise is due to the Chiefs selecting decisions since their rise in 2012 however their squad wasn't even that good in the years before that. There is no point the Chiefs picking Waikato players who are not in the top players in the country just because their franchise is based within that province. And those middle years had particularly poor Waikato teams. Hell, the Canes have a Wellington first policy and they're in the 2nd Division currently.
As for Douglas, you're focusing on one player who has missed out because it suits a narrative you're creating, in a team that is filled with loose forwards from within the franchise boundaries (it's just that they're from BoP, the Naki, and Counties), and only because he was an injury replacement in your team, I doubt you were bemoaning the fact he didn't make the Chiefs after the NPC last year.
Provincialism is not franchise rugby. Maybe you have a belief that they're associated because for so long Canterbury=Crusaders, but for the rest of us they're two different beasts.
I’ve read through the whole thread and don’t see any predictions of future ABs from Canes4Life. Disappointing.
Looks a settled squad for the Canes with the starting XV almost picking itself. A couple of question marks around the locks and whether Goosen will get more starts than Bus.
I just don't think he's heard of Jonah Lowe or Hugh Renton (despite him being a 2 year Canes squad member) yet otherwise all bets would be off .
The way I'd structure it would be for a minimum of x amount of players to be selected from within franchise boundaries. NOT just from the host union, which appears to be how some have taken it. This would strengthen parochialism and in the case of the Chiefs in particular it would see a lot more Waikato, BOP and Counties players selected than has been the case in recent years. There were well publicised stats about the Chiefs in the last few seasons around the amount of players they had signed from unions outside their catchment VS the amount of players from the host unions. Who really wants that?? Since buying a couple of titles, what have the Chiefs achieved, and what's the damage been to Waikato? Meanwhile, look at the example of Whetu Douglas. Largely ignored by the Chiefs while they signed loose forwards from other parts of the country and even overseas, he's then lost to Waikato and in the meantime embarrasses both the Chiefs and Waikato administrations by performing outstandingly in a handful of games after being drafted in for the Crusaders. That's the kind of player who could still be around and strengthening both sides while maintaining more of a local flavour to the Chiefs.
Good to have you back Shark, looks like your time away has seen your dislike of Rennie and the Chiefs continue, but some of the bollocks in this post needs to be addressed.
Lets look at Whetu Douglas first - every franchise has overlooked players that have gone on to decent careers, it happens all the time. The Canes overlooked Dagg, the Crusaders let BBBR get away, the Canes missed Aaron Smith etc. Furthermore, if Douglas was as good as you're making him out to be a franchise would have picked him up as a squad member yet he was only picked up as an injury replacement - this was clearly the level that he was rated at the start of the season.
Now, lets look at your "buying a couple of titles" quip - I assume there was no way you said this with a straight face. The first two Crusaders winning teams could equally be seen as "bought titles" and the franchise used that success and a system you're advocating now to suck up talent from all over the country.
Also, have you seen the 2011 Waikato NPC squad that would have been picked from for the 2012 Chiefs? That squad wasn't great in a Super rugby sense.
The Super competition is for NZs best players, not for all players in a franchise home base. How many of these players would you have picked over the players the Chiefs picked for 2012? (I've crossed out those unavailable and put in italics those in the squad - which incidentally easily meets your 6 Waikato contracted players from your follow up post).
Armstrong Jono, Flanker 31.12.87 Te Awamutu Sports 1.81 101 0
Bradley Alex, Loose forward 30.09.81 Morrinsville Sports 1.90 114 20
Barnes Malcolm, Halfback 15.08.84 Hamilton Old Boys 1.79 85 18
Christie Sam, First five-eighth 26.09.86 Fraser Tech 1.80 92 16
Cummings-Toone Marcel, Hooker 17.07.84 University 1.82 106 0
de Malmanche Aled, Hooker 11.09.84 Hamilton Old Boys 1.85 114 52
Donald Stephen, First five-eighth 03.12.83 University 1.86 101 50
Ellison Andre, Prop 08.07.79 Hamilton Old Boys 1.82 119 1
Graham Romana, Lock 29.05.86 Hautapu 2.02 114 28
George Nathan, First five 13.06.91 Te Awamutu Sports 1.75 75 0
Grice Rory, Number 8 02.04.90 Otorohanga 1.75 110 0
Halai Frank, Wing 6.03.88 Hamilton Marist 1.95 105 3
Hohneck Zak, Loose forward 08.03.90 Otorohanga 1.85 105 9
Holah Marty, Flanker 10.09.76 Hamilton Marist 1.84 99 71
Kahui Richard, Centre 09.06.85 Te Rapa 1.90 101 35
Kerr-Barlow Tawera, Halfback 15.08.90 Hautapu 1.87 89 17
Lam Jack, Number 8 18.11.87 Hamilton Marist 1.88 107 28
Leonard Brendon, Halfback 16.04.85 Morrinsville Sports 1.82 95 43
Lynn Toby, Lock 06.10.84 Te Rapa 1.97 114 66
May Ben, Prop 13.10.82 Te Awamutu Sports 1.94 118 15
Malo Jono, Halfback 23.01.90 Hamilton Marist 1.79 86 0
Messam Liam, Loose forward 25.03.84 Hautapu 1.88 107 82
Middleton Chris, Lock 11.03.87 Te Awamutu Sports 1.99 110 2
Mikkelson Tim, Wing 13.8.86 University 1.91 102 34
Murray Mark, Midfield back 22.04.87 Te Awamutu Sports 1.86 98 0
O'Donnell Declan, Midfield back 20.11.90 Melville 1.86 94 0
Olsen Josh, Lock 16.04.84 Hamilton Old Boys 2.01 111 4
Renata Trent, utility back 13.05.88 Hamilton Marist 1.80 90 33
Robertson Glen, Utility back 20.02.91 Fraser Tech 1.86 90 0
Shuster Rena, Midfield back 16.11.80 Hamilton Old Boys 1.85 95 0
Sivivatu Sitiveni, Wing 19.04.82 Frankton 1.85 99 28
Smith Toby, Prop 10.10.88 Hamilton Old Boys 1.90 113 23
Speight Henry, Wing 24.3.88 Hamilton Old Boys 1.86 96 24
Sweeney Paul, Flanker 19.12.88 Morrinsville Sports 1.86 99 0
Talakai Latu, Prop 26.12.89 Fraser Tech 1.85 124 7
Tauroa Ted, Prop 19.12.82 Otorohanga 1.86 126 5
Tokula Savenaca, Wing 15.06.85 Fraser Tech 1.92 97 29
Tyrell Josh, Flanker 16.10.90 Hamilton Marist 1.93 104 0
White Nathan, Prop 04.09.81 Te Awamutu Sports 1.88 117 66
Willison Jackson, Midfield back 05.09.88 Hautapu 1.82 92 34
Vant Leven Matt, Loose forward 23.10.87 Fraser Tech 1.94 105 10
TBH, I think if you look at the Chiefs 2017 squad you'll find that the bulk are from the 4 home provinces that make up the franchise, it's just that Waikato is no longer the strongest province in the franchise.
I assumed I'd done a review of the latest, but I only commented on my re-watch of the original. I think the new one is a much better film.
The original was a classic (cult classic) in my opinion due in most part to it's look and its influence on sci fi imagery from then on. The plot is much smaller in scope than the new one yet seems to take an age to tell it's small story. It is slow moving in ways I don't personally believe it needs to be. Batty's final speech seemed comical to me on the re-watch, but I can't remember my take on it from earlier watches. However the world it sets up is awesome and the new one benefited from that.
I think the new one took all the good stuff, the look, the sound design etc and had better pacing, even though some think it is slow moving. There are plot holes and leaps but all movies have those.
While I'm disappointed we helped Northland I'm extremely glad we got a win over the Poo!
You love us really. Come on bro give us a hug..
I don't know who I want to lose worse in your semi final with The cough, splutter, stab myself with a fork Bay.
Anyway, to the game, I hope that the Super selectors were reminded enough of the class of Jonah Lowe from this match and he is duly selected for a team - any team, if the Canes as per usual can't see past Porirua and the Rimutakas.
@steven-harris I think sometimes with 10s it's just luck and there's little you can do to change that. The Canes were always searching for a 10 during the Cooper era but the best they could come up with was Holwell and Gopperth - they even tried to get Brock James, but that was before NZR decide they were happy to subsidise Oz rugby.
Anyway, the Chiefs got lucky that the Canes were a shit show so they got Cruden, and then the Canes got lucky because Barrett came through, the Highlanders got lucky because the Canes didn't think that much of Lima, and the Crusaders apparently have a 10 factory somewhere. Sadly, the Blues haven't got lucky and the 10s they've taken a punt on haven't quite reached the standard expected of them.
I'm all for going back to a system where a franchise has to select a minimum of x amount of players from within franchise boundaries. This used to be something like 24 players but could be as few as 12 potentially. There has to be a happy medium to be found between the central contracting free-for-all and the old 24 player system. Before anyone says anything, this wouldn't benefit Canterbury greatly.
What is wrong with it in reality? Why protect the franchise bases? Some provinces are struggling to be as successful as in the past, that just means others are more successful now - but if you remember back to the 80s then Waikato spent time in the old 2nd division.
If unions are to be tied in then it should be all top tier unions in the region rather than just the home franchise which has happened in the past, that way a union like Hawkes Bay (for example) wouldn't see it's players go to other franchises so often.
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